Ancient Fury
Along with Kirk bringing “when my boyfriend hears about this you’re gonna get it” attitude in The Price/Fate of the Phoenix Spock also brings an extremely potent “if you lay a finger on him I will kill you” heat that I am just reveling in.
So I’ve been reading The Fate of the Phoenix recently, I’m about half way through, and so far Kirk is bringing the biggest “when my boyfriend hears about this you’re gonna wish you were never born” energy and I am LIVING for it.
Pre-Surak Spirk AU
Kirk sighed heavily watching the campfire flames dance. His attempts over the last hour to lure their captured Vulcan warrior into speaking had been fruitless. Kirk’s clan was scattered in the nearby forest; defending, hunting and scouting, leaving only him and the Vulcan behind. He picked up a small rock and flicked it into the tree line, finding the silent inaction of guard duty interminable.
“Perhaps you don’t speak at all then” he said to the flames “seems unlikely with that look you’ve been giving me all night”
He glanced over to see if there was a reaction. The being remained as still as a statue, dark eyes glinting. His raven hair was unkempt from their earlier battle. Behind the gaze was a deep intelligence. He hadn’t regarded Kirk with the anger or fear Kirk had expected of a captured man. More with a thoughtful calculation. Kirk found his intensity and sharp features unnervingly striking.
“Though perhaps you have bewitched me to think that with your mind" he snorted at the beauty.
“Only works if they touch your face”
Kirk nearly leapt out of his skin, drawing his sword toward the voice. McCoy burst out laughing pushing past him to get to the fire.
“Must have ‘bewitched’ you good if you didn’t hear me comin’” The older healer chuckled. Kirk pointedly ignored the Vulcan as he felt heat burning across his cheeks and ears.
“Any word from Pike?” Kirk asked, trying to bury McCoy’s assertion as quickly as possible.
“Some rumours going around that their king’s son is missing" McCoy replied rubbing his hands “not sure if this is him yet though”
Kirk’s head flicked back to their prisoner with surprise.
“Got a name?” he asked McCoy, gaze not breaking from the Vulcans.
“The prince? Yeah” McCoy asked also regarding the Vulcan over his shoulder “It’s Spock”
The Vulcan blinked passively, betraying nothing.
More AU deets here: https://seraph5.tumblr.com/post/668382045879336960/wip-and-an-au-speed-run-slow-burn-so-in-my-mind-i
amok
I know I recently reposted this but I loved it so much I had to do it again. Kirks face here is both hilarious and amazing. It’s got a massive vibe of “uh…look everyone. This isn’t going how I thought it would but Spock is just so horny and I am super down so if you could y'all maybe clear out? Give us some room, frankly a lot of room, I think we can clear this whole thing up soon. Well not too soon but you get me. Anyway jog on please thank you”
Meld WIP
I haven’t been in the star trek fandom for very long (I’ve only just started binging the series in the last couple months), so it’s been pretty surprising to find out just how negative the perception of the reboot movies are.
this isn’t coming from the perspective of someone who grew up with the series, so it hit different for me than it might for people with a different relationship to TOS, but I thought it was genuinely clever and Respectful with how it was handled.
To quote leonard nimoy: “Well the alternative timeline gives them license to escape from canon
concerns. I can’t see people saying ‘they shouldn’t do that because…’ or
‘that doesn’t tie in to such and such’ because it is a different time
and place. Am I right about that?”
[Link]
the entire Premise is that the original series happened as it was presented in TOS, but an event late in Spock’s life caused the creation of a parallel universe in which everyone’s lives were significantly altered through two key changes to the timeline. this gives them the freedom to Both revel in fanservice And explore different facets of the characters and their relationships.
the destruction of vulcan Vastly impacts the characters and the plot moving forward, and its a detail that a lot of people take issue with. but the emotional impact of sarek admitting Directly to spock that there is value in his humanity, that his feelings Aren’t wrong, that sarek married
amanda
because he Loved her cannot be understated. you can read all of these things into sarek as he was in the original series, but he Never had an open conversation about these things with spock. this creates a Believable and Rewarding change in their relationship, where we get to see a different facet of them Because of the changes made. and that’s exactly the appeal. showing us pieces of these characters that we never got in TOS that are nevertheless undeniably Them.
everyone is Different yes, but they’re also fundamentally the same people at their core and that matters.
kirk’s personality obviously takes the biggest change, with him experiencing trauma at a young age, losing his father, and having an implied abusive father figure after that point. he has a harsher personality in reaction to harsher conditions, he’s spikier and harder to love. but he’s also still fundamentally a Good person whose willing to risk everything to help people. he still has what made kirk prime a good captain and a good friend.
I’m not gonna say that it’s the most nuanced story in the world, but it explores a version of kirk that was born from even Less fortunate circumstances than kirk prime, exploring a kirk brimming with potential who learned to bite back after he was kicked down. exploring those themes of trauma and loss, of insecurity and growth, and coming to the conclusion that Fundamentally He Is Capable Of Good isn’t a Bad thing. you don’t have to like it, but his growth into a better person is The Point. they deepened his flaws (all of which were present in a less exaggerated form in TOS) To Show That Growth.
and then of course there’s his relationship with spock.
people are totally justified in not liking that they had a rough start to their relationship, I usually don’t like to see that kind of thing in reboots or hollywood adaptations either, but the way people talk about it is just unfair.
Yes kirk and spock and bones have a very strong relationship in TOS, they also already know each other by the time the show starts. to look at them having to learn to get to know and trust each other when they first meet and say that it’s Bad because they were already full on ride or die for each other in the og series is silly. TOS kirk and spock had to meet and fall in love with each other too, it didn’t just happen over night kings.
secondly, the entire point of the first movie is that Even With reality itself being altered to pull them apart they are fundamentally compatible people that are Bound to each other. they meet each other on bad terms because of circumstances outside of their control, and yet they’re still pulled into each other’s orbit and find the other slotting into place next to them as if they always belonged. one of the first things that spock prime says in the movie is “I am and always will be your friend,” spock and jim are Meant for each other and the movie goes out of its way to explain that. which is what makes it so Weird to see people complaining about how they don’t like each other.
it’s a Different relationship, but it’s absolutely no less steeped in yearning or queer subtext.
speaking of queer subtext ! some people are Very unhappy with spock’s relationship with uhura.
first thing I wanna say is that making the argument that they’re doing anything that the original series hasn’t done is just, completely untrue. kirk has fallen in love with more girls in the og series than he knew what to do with, leonard nimoy was a heartthrob in his time (and he deserves it, awooga) and spock reflects that ! Spock usually turns the women who come onto him down (or when he doesn’t it’s because a plant has literally altered his mind), but there are exceptions to even that. all of three of the main boys have plenty of romance subplots, it happens. if that takes the possibility of them being queer off the table for you (which it shouldn’t, m-spec people exist) then I’m sorry to say that TOS is not exempt.
now, I can understand why Specifically This Relationship could rub people the wrong way or being disappointed that they didn’t outright depict kirk and spock as having a relationship (if not in the first movie then in the following ones after they’ve gotten to know each other), but even in that context the way I’ve seen people talk about it comes off as insensitive.
no, the relationship did not come out of nowhere. they considered having spock and uhura date each other in the original show (and you can see signs of this in the earlier episodes, where uhura very obviously flirts with him and they spend time together in their down time) before they decided against it, and spock was originally going to kiss uhura until shatner insisted that he wanted to do it (because it was the first interracial kiss on tv). [Link 1, Link 2, Link 3]
nichelle nichols was asked about this exact thing (spock and uhura’s relationship in the movie), you can read the interview in full here [Link] but I’d like to highlight this paragraph in particular:
“Now, go back to my participation in Star Trek as Uhura and Leonard (Nimoy) as Spock. There was always a connection between Uhura and Spock. It was the early 60’s, so you couldn’t do what you can do now, but if you will remember, Uhura related to Spock. When she saw the captain lost in space out there in her mirror, it was Spock who consoled her when she went screaming out of her room. When Spock needed an expert to help save the ship, you remember that Uhura put something together and related back to him the famous words, “I don’t know if I can do this. I’m afraid.” And Uhura was the only one who could do a spoof on Spock. Remember the song (in “Charlie X”)? Those were the hints, as far as I’m concerned.”
the film makers looked at the fact there were Hints for uhura and spock, that they were Interested in exploring an interracial couple for the first time (both before and immediately after interracial couples won the right to legally get married) but Couldn’t because of the circumstances of the times and decided to Make that depiction. you don’t have to Like their relationship just because of that fact, but it’s Incredibly reductive to play down it’s significance as just a No Homo cop out. explicitly queer relationships are not the only progressive or culturally important relationships in fiction.
moreover, if you can’t imagine polyamory in the communist utopian future that’s on you.
moreover, this perception that this was a soulless cash grab is just, unfounded.
leonard nimoy returned to the role as spock for the first time in 16 years (since 1991) and this was Entirely because of the respect they had for nimoy, spock as a character, and the franchise as a whole.
Lets look at some quotes from nimoy in interviews regarding the film:
Leonard Nimoy: When I first read the script (…) I immediately contacted J.J. and said “I think it is terrific…I think you guys have done a wonderful job. There is still work to be done, but it is very clear that you and your writers know what you are doing and you know how to do this movie and know what it should be about….and I am very interested.” Then as time went by we worked things out with Paramount, but the most important things were J.J. and the script. (…) I am very pleased about that and I am very comfortable with where this is going. I think the writers have done a terrific job. They have a real sense of the characters and the heart of Star Trek and what it is really all about.
(…)
TrekMovie.com: Now in the case of the new movie you have been retired from acting for years. What was it about this one that made you want to act again and go through the make up again? What was it that made you say ‘I really want to do this?’
Leonard Nimoy: You are right, this is a special situation. First it is Star Trek and so I have to pay attention. I owe that to Star Trek.
Second place is that it is J.J. Abrams who I think very highly of, he
is a very talented guy. Then came the script and it was very clear that I
could make a contribution here. The Spock character that I am
playing, the original Spock character, is essential and important to the
script. So on the basis of those three elements it was easy to make the
decision. So those three things: Star Trek, J.J. Abrams, and an interesting Spock role.
[Link]
Praising the cast playing younger versions of characters from the
original 1960s TV series, he [Leonard Nimoy] said: “Let me take the opportunity to say
this. Everybody at this table [the cast] are very, very talented and
intelligent people.”
“They found their own way to bring that talent and intelligence to this movie, and I think it shows.
(…)
When Karl Urban introduced himself as Leonard McCoy and shook hands
with Chris Pine, I burst into tears. That performance of his is so
moving, so touching and so powerful as Doctor McCoy, that I think D.
Kelley would be smiling, and maybe in tears as well.”
“The makers of this film reawakened the passion in me that I had when we made the original film and series. I was put back in touch with what I cared about and liked about Star Trek, and why I enjoyed being involved with Star Trek. So, it was an easy way to come on home.”
“[In this Star Trek] they said things and showed me things, and
demonstrated the sensibility that I felt very comfortable with, and I
think that shows in the movie. I like it.”
again, you don’t have to like it just because leonard nimoy did, you don’t have to Agree. but the idea that nobody working on the film Cared is provably false. near everyone working on the project was already a fan of the series or were excited to be involved and did their homework. it’s genuinely a Miracle just how much of a labor of love this was, and in my opinion you can feel that through the movie itself. I’d highly recommend looking into interviews and behind the scenes details about the movies. they had a respect not just for the source material, but for leonard nimoy as a person.
there’s definitely more I Could say about this, but it’s 4 am now so I’m gonna shelve it jklfdsa
that said! it’s Fine to not like the movie, not everything is going to be suited to everyone’s taste, but the specific criticisms I’ve seen feel very off base
But that is one issue that we fans have, that the stars don’t: We watched Trek again and again and know almost every detail by heart and that’s why inconsistencies rub us the wrong way.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have ANY problem with anyone else enjoying the new Trek movies. In fact I’m happy they brought new people into fandom and they’re probably the one reason we get new Trek shows and I’m very thankful for that. But that doesn’t stop me from hating them on the context level.
First of all, they used time travel to create a parallel universe. But that’s not how time travel works in Trek. It has been established that every time travel has effects on the timeline it is coming from. That’s the whole reason for some episodes. So, just saying (off-screen for that matter) ‘Oh, no no, this doesn’t damage the prime timeline. Why? We have no idea, but we just say so’ was… Well, an amateur move. So still lacking proper explanation, some fans (including me) still feel they have erased all of existing Trek except ENT and nowadays Picard. This could have easily been prevented by just having Spock explain on screen how the addition of red matter opened a rift in the universes that he hadn’t forseen and how he therefore screwed up more than anticipated. But they didn’t do that, and then got pissed off when fans pointed that out. That just hurts, because it was a mistake that could have easily been avoided.
Then off to Kirk. Well, he’s a jackass in every iteration, so not much of a problem here. Except that it ignores that Prime Kirk also had a traumatic background. Seeing three thousand people being murdered and almost starving to death isn’t easy either. So… It feels like they’re playing ‘which trauma is “worth” more’. But… That’s the least of my problems.
And off to Spuhura. The greatest issue I have here is that creating Spuhura BEFORE the destruction of Vulcan makes Spock a cheating arsehole. He is engaged, for heaven’s sake. And they knew that fans know that. So again, they could have found an explanation how this doesn’t make him a despicable swine, but they didn’t. They didn’t care that they hurt the character, making him something that would use a trigger warning, because cheating fiancés are a trauma for some. They could’ve just said that T'Pring rejected Spock, that their brains weren’t compatible. Another issue that would have been SO EASY to avoid. They just didn’t think for one second that this would be an issue.
So… I guess my main problem (and maybe those of others as well) isn’t so much the movies themselves. It’s how they simply didn’t think about the issues of consistency that could SO EASILY have not been an issue at all, had they just paid attention to the details.
(Okay, and that the movies don’t have any of the rather utopian, hopeful, pacifist, anti-capitalistic tones that are the core of Trek, doesn’t help either, but… That’s not the zeitgeist and with core Trek stories they wouldn’t have gotten an audience, so that’s forgivable.)
But in the end… Well, what matters most is that other people enjoy those movies and that those people (you ❤️) give new life to Trek and… I guess in the end that’s worth all the pain that the new movies (or mainly 2009) caused.
this post was more about dispelling specific criticisms that I’ve been seeing repeated in the tags rather than insisting that people Should like the movies. it’s all down to personal taste at the end of the day, and the tone of the movie is just very different from the tone of TOS. so it’s totally understandable to not like it !
that said, there are some points here that I still don’t agree with !
firstly, leonard nimoy was given free reign to edit the script, and in fact he talks repeatedly in interviews about how he was hooked into film immediately By the script. you can argue why you specifically do not like it, but you can’t say that it happened because the people making it weren’t as familiar with star trek as you were.
again, that’s not to say that you still can’t dislike it, see it as inconsistent, or feel like it pushes too hard on your suspension of disbelief. but I dislike this idea that the movie was made by people who didn’t care for or understand the original series. when you look into it over and over again you’ll see stories of people who’ve been fans since they were little or people excitedly watching TOS on set while they’re mentored for their roles. there was a lot of very clear and obvious passion pouring into this movie and that at least resonated with me as a newer fan.
secondly, you answered your own question didn’t you? spock prime is obviously an old man, and we see that this instance of creating a new universe happened because of new technology that hadn’t existed by the time of TOS. it’s not hard to believe that it’d act differently from other instances of time travel in the show when it happened under different circumstances from any other instance of time travel we’d seen before. I also don’t think it’d make sense to have spock prime explain exactly how and why it worked when it only happened the way that it did because of an accident. spock prime had no way of knowing that it was going to happen and he only arrived just before jim found him, so there really isn’t any way to justify him having more information about what happened than he does in the movie.
again, you can still not Like that, but I don’t think it constitutes a mistake on the part of the filmmakers. especially not when compared to inconsistencies present in TOS.
and you can, feel that way about kirk. I can’t say that you’re not allowed to make that interpretation. but I personally don’t see that supported by the movie. the movie does not say “kirk experienced trauma so now he’s an asshole” (which I think would be a very unfavorable presentation of trauma), it says “kirk lost an important support system he would’ve had otherwise and lashed out when they were replaced by an abuser.”
it’s not about which version of kirk “had it worse,” it’s about how strong support systems are important and how kids react to abuse from people who they should be able to trust. at least that’s how I read it anyways!
and that’s, a very strong reaction!
I hate to think what you consider of fans who ship spock and kirk Before spock’s pon farr.
and I mean, you’re allowed to think of spock as cheating swine, but you’re vastly overlooking the fact that spock and t’pring were an arranged marriage as kids. they weren’t in love with each other, Very Obviously So. spock had seriously considered just dying over his marriage with t’pring in TOS. and t’pring arranged for spock to murder kirk just so she could marry her boyfriend (who she was Actually in love with). and then of course we have the fact that spock had worked with pike for at least 11 years before he worked with kirk on the enterprise, which I’m going to guess is at least 11 years that he’d never so much as spoken to t’pring. going strictly off of TOS it seems clear to me that while they were indeed engaged neither of them actually Knew let alone Liked each other.
moreover, we have the detail of spock’s pon farr starting much later than it would have for other vulcans, meaning he’d thought that it wasn’t going to happen for him at all. vulcans start pon farr at 18, spock was clearly older than that in the movies. it wouldn’t at all be a stretch to say that spock felt comfortable dating Because he didn’t think his call to marry t’pring would ever come.
and of course spock’s pon farr would Actually start when he was much older, this was a young adult spock testing the waters for probably the first time (considering the racism on vulcan probably wasn’t very conductive to romance).
all of that said, the comparison to a Real marriage is pretty unfounded. they were never in love, the marriage was arranged when they were children, neither of them actually Wanted the marriage, and as far as they knew the marriage was never going to actually come. t’pring found someone else who she loved in that time, so why is it a moral issue for spock to do the same?
so again, it’s okay if you don’t like it, but I don’t see it as the movie not taking the original show into account. spock prime didn’t tell anyone about t’pring or pon farr until he was literally dying, so if anything it’d be out of character For Him to talk about her in the movie.
what I Will definitely agree to is the fact that the pacing and tone of the movies (Especially the first one) hit Very differently from the original show. the fast pace was obviously in service of the plot and characterization (having backstory for kirk and spock on top of the main plot of the movie), which I was personally very impressed by. but that’s still down to taste ! I think it’s fair to say that they did what they were going for Extremely well, but that it doesn’t matter how well they accomplished it if that tone and pacing doesn’t vibe with you. so, say la vie!
all of that said, here’s one inaccuracy that I can actually correct with some authority fjaskld.
I didn’t get into star trek through the movies, I binged TOS with a friend because it was a comfort series for them (they watched it with their dad as a kid, and they saw the movies in theaters with him too !), and well People Need Comfort In These Trying Times. I watched the movies after I’d seen most of TOS, which is actually part of why I really enjoyed them. there were a Ton of details that were either direct references to or direct parallels to TOS! even in the later movies :>
though I do definitely agree, the movies breathed a lot of new life into the fandom (just digging through content pre and post 2009 makes that clear), which is a wonderful thing to be sure !
all of that said, you’re completely valid even if you see the movies as trash garbage. I just don’t agree with a lot of the common criticisms for the movie.
I tend to lean on the side of @cardentist here. The first Trek I ever saw was the 2009 Star Trek which ultimately launched me into TOS and then later next gen and later still ds9, disco and now voyager. I returned to 2009 Star Trek recently and was actually blown away how respectful, inventive and well made it was. I feel like I often see people weighing the 2 hr movie against the nearly 66 hour TOS or even the broader series as a whole.
Logistically they had a fraction of time to achieve something that spoke to an enormous history and they did it brilliantly. In choosing to create a different timeline they could have done anything with the characters, gone super awol and created a real camel but in spite of giving themselves a dangerous amount of rope they honored the wider universe in, in my opinion, as many ways as they could. It was a tight story with impressive stakes, star trek fights, lovely callbacks and restrained divergences.
As a huge spirk fan I am somewhat disappointed they didn’t take a spirk route but once again I come back to a limit of time. Having Spock and Uhura together was a damn sight better than having Kirk and Uhura together which would have been the pedestrian line to draw. Having Kirk and Spock be the love interest in a meaningful way would have meant that it would have had to have been integral to if not the main plot and it wasnt a romance or a romantic movie.
I understand having issues with it or not liking the liberties they took with it but to me it honestly seems like essentially the best they could have done and in doing it they did breathe life back into the franchise.
I understand not liking the movies due to taste but I also don’t agree with most of the common critiques of the movie.
michaelmandog
Lalo visits Albuquerque in 1990. He sees an 18 years old Nacho who barely looks up from the floor while Lalo scolds a 20 years old Tuco (“Ay, why would tío let a kid run this place?”) Varga is a pretty young thing, looks strong enough too, but there’s this glint in his eye when he finally raises his head to say something to Tuco. Lalo never forgets it.
In 1990, Lalo would call him mi ángel, mi cielito. Nacho would be blushing hard, and then going out of his way to look tough and impress Lalo. Lalo who would say “You still have a long way to go, cielito. But tell you what! Keep that up and who knows, maybe next time we meet I’ll call you by your name”.
Nacho in his early cartel years would already be smart, but terribly, terribly dumb if a handsome, powerful older man started paying attention to him. He hasn’t been shot yet, he hasn’t bled for the Salamancas. His dad is still none the wiser that he’s slipping dirty money into the cash register at the shop.
Nacho is 18, going on 19, and on a power high. His usually sharp senses would absolutely fail him.
More ideas being thrown around below the cut
